Before his final run starring in “Better Call Saul,” AMC’s acclaimed prequel “Breaking Bad,” Emmy voters gave Bob Odenkirk an impressive parting gift — his fifth lead nomination in the show’s six seasons. “Saul,” which will end on August 15 (it returned after a hiatus earlier this week), earned a total of seven nominations, including Best Drama Series and, for Odenkirk’s co-star, Rhea Seehorn, Supporting Actress in a Drama Series. .
In a phone interview on Tuesday, Odenkirk discussed how the ethically challenged lawyer he portrays has evolved over the seasons, what the series finale has in store, and whether “Saul” is better than “Breaking Bad.” These are edited excerpts for the conversation.
Congratulations! How are you?
I am doing [expletive] big. I’m real. I am very happy, very surprised.
What went through your mind when you heard the news?
You have to take into account what was going through my head the weeks before, namely that we have been off the air for so long because of Covid and my heart attack. Plus, I think the show is an extension of “Breaking Bad” in some people’s minds, so it feels like it’s been on the air for 15 years. With so many wonderful new shows, I thought there was a good chance we would be overlooked. So I’m so thankful that people have noticed we’re back on the air and they seem to be saying that the show is just as good as it has been in the past. And of course Rhea has been nominated. I’m grateful for every nomination I’ve gotten, but it’s been hard to imagine the person I act with the most in these really challenging scenes going unnoticed or unrecognized. It’s just so much better to share this with her.
It’s the fifth time you’ve been nominated for ‘Saul’. Is that already established?
I never took it for granted. It was always a surprise. I couldn’t believe it, especially the first two years. But I think this means more. I have a greater appreciation for the people, the level of quality the writers have brought and the show has kept up. All the actors and all the talent. It means a lot to me because we came out of “Breaking Bad”, one of the best series of all time, and my goal has always been not to drop the ball and maintain the level of the standards.
The Return of ‘Better Call Saul’
The Breaking Bad prequel ends this year.
The show’s final season returned this week. Is it strange to celebrate while the show is on the air?
Not at all. In fact, it feels better. It’s better than feeling Oh it’s done† That was it† It feels like so much good is coming. It makes me feel like we deserve it for next month. Next week’s episode will be a celebration.
Before ‘Saul’ you were mainly known as a comedic actor. Now you are known for this dramatic role. What has the show done for your career?
The show has challenged me like nothing else in my life, definitely professionally. And it showed me the benefits of acting, and of acting challenging. To me, acting is worth it when it’s hard, when you really have to push yourself and dig deep and lose yourself in the role. Then you feel like you’ve done something meaningful. So I want to keep in touch with that. I would also like to do a nice comedy again, but not alone. I definitely want to keep working in the arena I’m in and that’s what brought me here.
When you first considered the show, did it come naturally to see yourself as a leading man?
You know, I’ve tried not to think too much about it. I treated it like any other role, but with more lines. And I had a lot more lines than anything I’d ever done. But it was just kind of a compartmentalizing mechanism to try and go through with it and not really take that in. big show. And then I started sweating.
This season sees the final stages of Jimmy’s transformation into Saul. What did you see in the character or were you trying to bring it to the character that wasn’t there in previous seasons?
A thing [the creators of “Better Call Saul”] Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould showed us that everything is personal. Ultimately, what makes you choose what you’re going to do, where you’re going, who you are, is very deep, very personal. It’s not a plan you can make. You follow your instincts and hurt feelings as you choose your path forward.
I’ve always felt that Jimmy had very high emotional intelligence, but he couldn’t apply that to himself. Who am I and what do I do and why did I do what I did? I feel like he’s always hidden and running away from that kind of thinking. I think my favorite thing about this season is that they give him the opportunity to do that. In the finale, without going into specifics, he does get that self-awareness and I really appreciate that. Playing against him was difficult at times because of the way he refused to examine his own choices.
How do you feel about saying goodbye to the show at this point?
I’ll be able to answer that question after watching the season finale. I think I need to see that story come to a conclusion. Of course I know what’s happening. But I’ve been living with this man for 12 years; I’ve been coming to and from Albuquerque for 12 years to play Saul Goodman. So it’s just not quite in my head yet that I’m running away from him.
The show has grown considerably over the years, to the point that some are now debating whether “Saul” is actually better than “Breaking Bad.” Where do you get to that question?
I think “Breaking Bad” is a more universal kind of story. It’s a midlife crisis and the dangers are greater – more guns flying around and the main character has almost immediate contact with drug dealers. That’s just not the case on our show. Our show is more internal. It’s a stranger journey. It covers many of the ins-and-outs of being a lawyer. It will just be less recognizable because of the subject. But with a wonderful combination of hard work and genius, the writers have come up with ways to help people understand some of the tensions and pressures these characters face and relate that to their own personal journeys.
The great thing is that Vince Gilligan and the “Breaking Bad” writing crew showed an audience the value of seeing something up close. And then they took that audience and they took that investment and they said, “Now we’re going to make a show you have to see terribly narrow.” You couldn’t if you didn’t make Breaking Bad first. A show like ours could not have existed.